After many unsuccessful attempts to interview him, the Editor-In-Chief of the AMBASSADOR MAGAZINE finally got Mazi Obi Okoli, the President, Congress of Igbo Leaders (CIL) in the UK to talk. And to say the least, he did not disappoint. Mazi Obi Okoli is a quintessential Igbo man. He speaks from the heart. In this interview, he bared his mind on a number of issues affecting Ndi-Igbo and Nigerians in general.

 

Please read the full interview below

Please Can You Tell Us Who Is Mazi Obi Okoli

Mazi Obi Okoli is an Igbo person born into a family in Ndiejezie village, Arondizuogu, Imo State. He is an IT Consultant; President, Congress of Igbo Leaders (CIL), UK and former Vice President of Ohanaeze Ndi – Igbo, UK.

You Are A Leader In The Igbo Community; Why Is It So Difficult For Ndi-Igbo In The UK To Come Together And Speak With One Voice On Issues Concerning Them?

Firstly, I am not one of the leaders. I am one of the servants of Ndi-Igbo. My late father Chief Okoli taught me that Ndi-Igbo are not led, they are followed. To be a servant of the people, you must to be able to serve them. So, I do not regard myself as one of the leaders. Rather I see myself as one of the servants of the people of Alaigbo.

When people say we are not United, the first thing we need to understand is, how do we define unity and at what point do we say we are not united. It is understandable because of our nature, we are the way God created us. We are not like every other person, we are not like the Northerners or the Westerners who, if one of their leaders say yes, every person must fall in line. The Igbo society is built on the foundational principle of ‘Igbo Kwenu’; which means that whatever we do, we must have a consonance, an agreement and once we agree to it, we tend to work towards it.

Again, the effect of the war of 1967-1970. The war had a lot of impact on the way people perceive us today. Recall that before the war, Ndi-Igbo were more united, they spoke with one voice, they identified and respected their leaders. But after the war and the impact, when we were given £20.00 and most of our properties seized, individualism became the order of the day and everybody began to fight for their survival.

And going back to it 57 years after the war, you find out that, that phase of the first decade after the war, every Igbo person was on his own. That kind of had a severe impact on the structure of our unity and understanding as a people to work together. But when you look at it again, will you say that totally the Igbos are not united? It is not true because, after the war, villages, communities, individuals contributed money to get people out from their villages to go to schools in various places and opened businesses. I knew this from the meetings we attended during Ikeji and Xmas festivals, my family contributed too.

Personally, I contributed to a lot of those funds. So looking at it today, there is practically no Igbo family that has no millionaire. And how were these millionaires created? It was because of the sustained unity we had amongst us as a people, amongst us as a nation, amongst us as villagers and families that produced what we are seeing today in every nook and cranny in Nigeria and the world.

In terms of speaking with one voice, asking one person to represent us, that is something we are working to achieve. And by the special Grace of Chukwu Okike Abiama, a lot of effort is being put towards that direction to make sure that we begin to sing from the same Hymn and articulate our concerns and aspirations and visions together.

Ndi-Igbo Are Complaining That They Have Been Marginalised And Some Say Excluded In Nigeria. Is The Exclusion Or Marginalisation Real Or Imagined? 

The marginalization of Ndi-Igbo can be divided into two.

(a) The marginalization of Ndi-Igbo by the Federal Government.

(b) (b) The marginalization of Ndi-Igbo by Ndi-Igbo.

After the war, we heard about the three R’s (Rehabilitation, Reconstruction and Re-integration) which the Nigeria Government in parenthesis said they will implement in the then Eastern Region. Instead of doing that, the Government had a Policy against the Igbos, making sure that nothing was functional in our Society. Professor Obi Nwakanma did an analysis of all the companies that existed after the war which Igbo owned, formed and hold. The federal govt frustrated all these companies, from ANAMCO to every other and made sure they never worked.

 Look at it today, all our Federal roads are not functioning. I can give you an instance of the road from Okigwe through Arondizuogu to Nnewi. For more than 30 years, that road has not been touched. If you look around the whole of Igboland you will find out that nothing physical from the Federal Government has happened. 

It was of recent, after 43 years that we got the so-called International Airport where no real domestic or International Airlines land or take off and the second River Niger Bridge has not been touched. You talk about Onne and Calabar Wharfs which would have brought investments into Igboland. You look at Lagos State today, Igbos are the people contributing about 32% of the GDP. These are people who would have been in the East doing their businesses if the Seaports in Port-Harcourt and Calabar were working.

There is another form of marginalization written all over us as Igbo. We got five states. We have produced the best Ministers. We have produced people in the Senate, held very distinct and important positions in the Senate committees. You would have expected these people to have done something. They have practically done nothing. They went there and short-changed us. I often tell most Igbos who try to say that we are marginalized to distinguish between the marginalization of the Federal Government which is not imagined at all because every Igbo person born today can see that marginalization clearly. Then the second one is the wickedness of our own people against our own people. And that marginalization needs to be dealt with

During President Goodluck Jonathan’s administration, Ndi-Igbo were in charge. Why wasn’t the second Niger Bridge constructed? So, we have a hate-filled type of marginalization from the government and then in comparison or parallel to it is the marginalization of the Ndi-Igbo by Ndi-Igbo.

Look at the Governor of Imo state, what has he done for us? Chief Orji Uzor Kanu was the Governor of Abia State, he could have built Aba as an Industrial hub. When Mbakwe was the Governor he virtually constructed all the roads in Aba, while a son of Abia State, a man who grew up in Aba town was the governor he did nothing for the state.

We should be talking about the two marginalizations and hold our people who we elected accountable to the people while dealing also with the overall hate that has been part of the war we lost. We have been paying the price since 1970 to date. Again, never in history has Ndi-Igbo been so marginalized, short-changed and hated as in this present Buhari led administration. He has shown that we are the 5% and he does not care. No matter what we say

Some People Say Igbo’s Problems In Nigeria Stems From The Fact that they Don’t Know How To Play Politics, Others Say They Elect Bad Representatives/Leaders. What’s Your Take On Igbo Politics?

Anybody who says Ndi-Igbo don’t know how to play politics should go back to 1960s. What about the roles of Zik, Okpara, Mbonu Ojike, K.O. Mbadiwe and the rest of them. We have played fantastic politics in Nigeria, but after we lost the war there was a calculated attempt to disenfranchise the Igbos from politics. It has always been a combination of Hausa/Yoruba coming together to make sure that we didn’t get whatever is due to us.

We need to equally understand the dynamics of Nigeria politics and identify other tribes we can work with. That is one area we need to enhance and make sure that we are good at doing. The Yorubas are fantastic at doing politics of hypocrisy, which the Igbos have not mastered.

The Hausas have the system of governance once they say something, the whole of their nation falls in line with it. For Ndi-Igbo, we are not that sort of people, so we need to have a rethink of our structure, our strategy to make sure that we play ‘better’ politics in Nigeria.

Look at the political structure we have in Nigeria. To become a Senator you probably spend up to 300 million naira. And who are the people the money is spent on; the Traditional Rulers, the Pastors, the Bishops, the Reverend Fathers and the people. They all take money from the politicians.

So are we electing the wrong people? Yes, we are. Because politics in Nigeria is money. If you have money you buy INEC, you buy everybody who can make you what you want to be. The politicians are not responsible to or accountable to the people because they get there with their money.

The entire political structure of Nigeria needs to be reconsidered. If we continue in this system in Nigeria, nobody can wipe-out corruption. The system itself cultivates and grow corruption. It’s not just in Igboland but in other parts of Nigeria hence the new word, familitocracy – which is the government of the family, by the family and for the children. It cuts across the country. In Igboland, we’ve not been electing the right people and that’s the truth.

What’s Your Opinion On The Call For A Republic Of Biafra By the  IPOB Advocates?

Any society where injustice, unfairness and oppression thrive, tend to have dissenting voices. The Nigerian State is incapable of taking care of her citizens. The system of government we have in place is not adequate to take care of the needs of the people. The Federal structure we have, where power is concentrated in the centre does not make good for the type of complex society like Nigeria. I grew up having a shower because pipe-borne water was there. We had electricity, we had almost everything, the roads were there. Instead of us advancing towards the second or first world, we are becoming a nation where something good is impossible. The question we should be asking ourselves whether you are Hausa, Yoruba or Igbo etc is; are you happy being Nigerians?

We must understand that Biafra is a spirit. It is not an agitation. It is something that has been deposited in the heart of every one of us. And occasionally that spirit awakens when there is lack of fairness, executive lawlessness, and extrajudicial killings. Kidnapping is happening in our place, nothing is being done. We are a people who enjoy the benefits of life. We want a society where we are free to trade and educate ourselves, lead a worthy life and build a sustainable nation. Igbos believe that, if given the opportunity, we can do better than most first world nations. And, that is what most people are asking for.

The Biafran thing as far as I am concerned has been there before and after I was born. It wasn’t Nnamdi Kanu that brought Biafra. Biafra has been there. Most of us grew up hearing tales from our parents who participated in the war. We know the pains, we know the sufferings of Ndi-Igbo and what we have been through in the hands of evil.

But, has the Nigerian government done anything responsible to show that they are ready to build a nation where peace, love and justice reign like they put in the National Anthem? The moment you leave Lagos going down Igboland you can count barely every five minutes you are stopped by one security arm or the other and searched like a criminal. In Igboland, we have over 250 check-points. We are the most peaceful in Nigeria but we have military cantonment everywhere in Igboland. There is no part of Igboland that is not a conquered territory.

Why is there no Federal presence in our place? Why is it that for 57 years we have been asking for a second Niger Bridge to be built? Why is Onne, Calabar wharfs not working? Why are the Federal roads in Igboland not constructed? Why is it that nobody is looking after our educational system? We are producing yearly graduates that have no jobs. These are the things people need to look at, and that is why people are saying they want to be free from an oppressive society.

Nobody wants to be free from something that is good. You ask for freedom when you know that you are not able to achieve or excel in any society. The agitation for Biafra will not go away because it’s a spirit. It’s inside every genuine born Igbo person. Even if you kill Nnamdi Kanu today, the agitation will not go away. It will come back again unless Nigerians begin to look at things that make us a nation and begin to work on those things. That is, creating a perfect nation where everybody, every Nigerian will be proud to be a Nigerian. And not a Country, where if you were born in Kaduna, Rivers or Imo States, you are regarded as a non-indigene because your parents were not born there. But you were trained there, you pay your taxes there, but still, you are regarded as a non-indigene. How can an Igbo person, from Imo state who lives in Bayelsa State be a non-indigene? So, by the policies we have in place, we are already saying we are not united.

 I find it treacherous when I hear the leaders say the unity of Nigeria is non-negotiable. Nothing in this world is non-negotiable. If you think that the unity of Nigeria is non-negotiable, build a Nigeria where every person will be passionate, free to express their God-given freedom to live anywhere and not to be killed by one Islamic group or another. Build a Nigeria where people can live in peace and unity. If we cannot guarantee that, you have no right to stop another person from enjoying his/her fundamental human right like freedom of speech and association which are guaranteed in our Constitution and the UN charter.

There Seems To Be A Conspiracy Of Silence Among The So-Called Igbo Leaders Since The Massacre Of Unarmed Members Of IPOB In Abia State By The Nigerian Armed Forces. Has The Nigerian State Finally Emasculated The Igbo People?

People do not understand when we speak about Ndi-Igbo been conquered. First, it was during the Obasanjo’s regime that this whole militarization of Igbo nation started. He brought in so many military ‘settlements’ in Igboland from Enugu to Emekuku. It was a plan by Obasanjo. Now, we had the python (Eke), which is a sacred animal in Igboland dancing in our territory and killing our people.

I come from Arondizuogu, we regard the Eke as a sacred serpent that we don’t harm, we don’t even kill. So, for Eke to dance in our place and kill our children was an insult to the culture, tradition and believes of Ndi-Igbo. What they have practically told us is that we are not human and that we do not even have the right to defend ourselves. They brought in python to dance. Now our land has been polluted with blood. So how do you expect the so-called leaders to talk? Anyway, Ndi-Igbo don’t have leaders. That these guys were elected to represent us in different government establishments does not make them our leaders. They erroneously assumed the responsibility of calling themselves leaders. What we have are mannequins in the shopping mall of Igbo democracy.

As you know, mannequins don’t speak, mannequins cannot breathe and that’s what we have in Igboland. We have people we think are our leaders but in retrospect, they are there for their own selfish ends. Remember we used to have leaders like Emeka Odumegwu Ojukwu, Michael Okpara, K.O. Mbadiwe and others. People we have today are there to make gains for themselves and their families.

Why is there silence in Igboland? It is so because somebody, a young man who did not experience the war, come from nowhere and rattled the terrain, the very muddy waters of Igboland and everybody was taken aback. They were rattled by Nnamdi Kanu and his followership. Ndi-Igbo should look at IPOB and Nnamdi Kanu as the evidence, the report card. If the so-called leaders had done what they were supposed to do, if Nigeria had done what it was supposed to do for her Citizens, will there be agitation for Biafra? No! The agitation you see is because we have suffered, laboured, short-changed in everything. We don’t have genuine representatives who are working for us. Look at the whole South East; it’s dilapidated, messy, smelly. We need people who can work for us.

So, will this agitation go away? No.  And, why is the silence Igboland? Because they don’t want their meal ticket rattled. They want to go to the North to bow, get official position for themselves and their families, buy their private jets. They want to be happy while the masses suffer.

Nigerians In The Diaspora Don’t Have The Right To Vote In Elections In Nigeria, Despite Their Huge Financial Remittances To The Nigerian Economy; What’s Your Opinion?

We have done everything as Nigeria Organisations to present our concerns to the Senate. The last time we were frustrated and we abandoned it. Now from what we know the Bill has passed second reading. Economically, last year alone, it’s on record that Nigerians in Diaspora remitted over $57 billion into the Nigerian economy.

This is something that has been happening over the years. There is practically no Nigerian in Diaspora that is not doing school fees, medical bills, etc. for their respective families in Nigeria and we don’t have the right to vote. Hopefully, the Bill is still in the Senate and House of Representatives. We are still fighting to have the right to vote like any other civilized people in the world.

But again, why is it being frustrated?  You should understand the power of the voting electorate in Diaspora. Most of these people in Nigeria know that their being in power could be decided by the votes we cast from here. And they know that we are not the sort of people they can come and cajole with their rhetoric and money. It is a deliberate plan by the government to make sure that the bill does not pass so as to suppress the voting power of Nigerians in Diaspora.

If you look at the number of Nigerians in Diaspora, we can significantly make a change in term of who becomes the President or anything in the States in Nigeria. It is a battle and work in progress. Let us encourage every Nigeria to come on board to make sure that we continue putting the pressure on the Senate and the embassies to make sure that our voices are heard and that we are given the right to vote.

Sometime Ago You Resigned From Ohanaeze Ndi-Igbo, Have You Rejoined Them?

I have not re-joined Ohanaeze in the UK. But  Chief Anthony Ajudua, the chairman in the UK said he did accept my resignation. But I resigned because I felt Ohanaeze Ndi-Igbo was not doing what it ought to be doing for our people. I resigned because Ohanaeze Ndi-Igbo failed to be the voice of our people, articulate issues, coordinate and have meetings with all the Igbo leaders that matter irrespective of who they think we are – Market woman, Okada Drivers, Tailors, etc. They need to understand what we want, then, Ohanaeze can go and represent our wishes.

But what is happening today is that we have an Ohanaeze President that is running off on a taught and not consulting with the people and saying that they are representing us. When the people are talking of the right of self-determination, Ohanaeze is talking re-structuring, when we move to restructuring they will move to or be talking another thing altogether.

So, the problem we have with the leadership of Ohanaeze today is, whose template are they running with. Is it the template of Ndi-Igbo? Where was the template designed? The decisions Ohanaeze is implementing today where did they come from? When you say Ohanaeze, it means Anyi nile bu Ndi-Igbo kwelu, na Ohana eze si.  Who gave them the mandate to go and speak on our behalf and represent us?  Where is Ohanaeze getting its power from, where is it getting its modus operandi from? These are the fundamental questions we all need to ask.

I have the utmost respect for current President of Ohanaeze, Chief Nnia Nwodo, but I must state in clear terms that, for Ohanaeze to represent Ndi-Igbo they must find ways of negotiating and speaking with the people they represent. They must understand our heart-beat before they to Abuja to claim that they are representing us as they are currently doing.

Are You A Member Of Any Nigerian Political Party?

When Ikemba, Emeka Odimegwu Ojukwu was alive, I was a member of APGA. I am registered with APGA up till today. But I must emphasize here that, my loyalty is to the Igbo nation and not to any political party or any individual. If for any reason, I have the feeling that APGA is not representing the will and vision of my people, I will make a very clear statement. 

You Have Appeared In Some Films Recently, Are You Leaving Your Day  Job Soon For  Nollywood?         

No. That’s far from it. I acted in the first film in Nollywood in 1996. That was abused and after that, I never acted again. I love acting. I have been on stage with Taiwo Awosika, Madu Chikwendu, Clem Ohamaeze. We worked together in the past. Acting has been a passion for me, it’s a hobby. I am an IT Consultant and I am doing well in that industry. Acting is something that gives me joy. It’s not the money, but something I love doing, being on stage or being in Motion Picture. It simply gives me joy. It’s just to fulfill an aspect of my life. I love being on stage or acting.

Thank you, Mazi Obi Okoli.